Forums - 22 Tricks for Playing Rushdown Blackheart Show all 27 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- 22 Tricks for Playing Rushdown Blackheart (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=28710) Posted by DeathFromAbove on 07:05:2001 12:20 PM: 22 Tricks for Playing Rushdown Blackheart Feel free to ask questions about the following: (1)When you attack DURING Blackheart's air dash, it causes the airdash to travel further across the screen, and move faster. It also causes the airdash to last longer. A quick look: normal airdash: 1/3 of a screen, very quick airdash + LP: 1/2 of a screen, very quick airdash + LK: 1/2 of a screen, recovers a bit quicker than LP airdash + HP: Full screen, very long duration. This also causes the demons to be spaced apart much farther than they normally would, providing excellent cover during the dash. airdash + HK: Full screen, very long duration, The demons also travel downwards at a much different angle than they normally would. (2)Best jump-in: jump forward, air dash forward, LK, LK after the dash ends. A good way to get in close. (3)Crossover jumpins: HP & HK. Jump forward as if you're going to jump-in, then do an airdash forward, and do HP or HK during the airdash. Blackheart will fly over their head, but the demons will hit them from the front. When done with HP, the individual demons will hit the opponent from behind, 1 at a time, causing many opponents to block wrong. (4)Dash-in and call an invulnerable AAA (Ken, Cyclops, Psylocke, etc.), and just block until you hit the ground. A good change-up from the LK->LK, if they are using AAA. Stuffs their assist, and gives you a chance to kill it. Of course, be prepared to protect your assist, by crossing over the opponent, or doing a LK->HK. (5)There are 3 seperate heights during BH's SJ at which airdashing is most effective. a. high: full SJ height: HK is effective from this range. Save your airdash for afterwards to get rid of the bad lag. b. low: just above 1 screens height. Cancel your SJ with an airdash quickly after jumping. HP and HK are both effective when done during the airdash. c. medium: just above the height to which an AHVB will reach when curved upward. Pretty much only for use against Cable. HK is effective during the airdash. HP is effective onthe way down after the airdash. (6)Use his ground dash at close range, once you call in your helper. It will crossover the opponent, protecting your helper. It will also add to the chaos of trying to block correctly. Basic idea is: C.LK + call helper, dash forward. This works better if the assist doesn't push them too far back (like Cyclops unfortunately does). (7)Guardbreaks. Everyone knows you can jumpback with HP all day with Blackheart against rush characters. What isn't obvious is that the HP demons do an excellent job of guardbreaking any character onscreen foolish enough to do a normal jump. Capitalize on this by calling in a quick assist when you see them block a demon. (Ken, Capcom, and Cyclops are recommended) (8)Learn how to manipulate the flight path of your J.HP demons by moving around. Those little suckers track back to Blackheart's chest, no matter where he goes. So if you airdash after throwing some out, they'll have to follow you a long way across the screen, which can cover a lot of area. Sometimes, you should duck while waiting for them to return to you (so they won't fly right over short opponents). This is just a matter of experience. Go practice. Now! (9)Pushblocking: Is generally not too effective against BH. As long as there are demons onscreen, they won't be pushed back. Actually, their pushblocking will work to your advantage sometimes, leaving a whole mess of J.HP demons that have to fly waaaaaaay back across the screen to you. If you are truly pushed out of range, and you don't have a ton of shit onscreen, you should SJ, then airdash at a low height. Take advantage of a crossup, and you'll be right back on their ass. (10)Blackheart's favorite assist (at least for rushdown) is not Cyclops. Why? Because Cyclops pushes the opponent too far away from you. Everytime you use him, you are committing to having to cross the distance of the screen again, and then protect him. This makes it difficult to crossover the opponent, which, if you haven't figured it out, is BH's favorite tactic. Crossover HP is too powerful! I recommend Ken, as he gives great combo options, stuffs every other assist, and gives a nice, long blockstun, without pushing them away. As a bonus, he also makes Strider/Doom a non-threat. (11)Be careful of AAA's. Blackheart doesn't have a ground dash-in chain, so you can't rely on him to stuff Capcom (and other non-invincible AAAs) before they come out. Truth be told, BH needs an anti-assist assist to help him in this area. Make sure to get an assist with some invincibility to drop in on them at close range. (Ken!) After getting their AAA snuffed a few times, they'll hesitate to use it that way again. (12)Know this: any demons on screen will disappear if you: a. Make any attack in the air. b. Do a HP or HK on the ground. Don't make one of these attacks if your on-screen demons are in a good position (read: anywhere behind your opponent). It is often a better idea just to crouch block while they track back to you and pummel your opponent. One exception to the rule: if you get pushed back from the opponent, use the time the demons create to jump back in with LK. The fact that LK will cancel the demons left onscreen is OK in this instance. (13)Be willing to DHC. Blackheart loves to DHC. Judgment Day and Armageddon are 2 excellent supers to DHC out of. HoD is good to DHC into. If you put BH on a team where he is battery, and you don't let him spend at least one level of HC to DHC out of, you're effectively neutering him. His supers do good damage. Use them, dammit. (14)A well-played BH rushdown resembles a Strider-Doom trap. BH is always on one side, and either your assist, or some fierce demons are on the other side. (15)Jump back HP is a good holding pattern against keep-away. However, if you are closer than 1/2 a screen, do jump back LP, and cancel it to a back dash. Throw a HP during the air dash. Much better. (16)Do NOT throw out an Inferno unless your opponent is high in the air. Otherwise, you have to burn a level just to cover yourself. Unless you're chipping their last bit of life off with HoD, don't do it. It's better to save your meter for damaging DHC combinations. Exception: if BH is your last character and you have the lead, go ahead and go for the chipping damage. (17)When you practice, learn how to do damage without relying on chipping damage. It will improve your overall game. Once you get down the rest of the stuff, then put the chip strategies back in there. (18)Judgment Day > Heart of Darkness. If you have a choice, do Judgment Day. It does better damage, and is much better to DHC out of (since most of the damage from HoD is on the last hit) The chip damage is comparable, and from full screen, it is totally safe (even against Cable) if blocked. (19)Armageddon works well for punishing helpers. If you hit them in the air (after a Ken assist?) with it, you can immediately do a J.HP, land and do another Armageddon, and it will uncombo the helper (in most cases, this is fatal to the helper). Just don't try this against Cable, Iron Man, or any other character with a multihitting beam projectile. (20)Always, always end any aircombos with an airthrow. BH can be punished during his forced dash after an aircombo if you end it with his medium kick. Learn his airdash combo to get decent damage out of it: LP, LK, LP, LP XX airdash LP, LK, airthrow (21)You can airdash at the end of a HoD. Keep the pressure on after a blocked super. It's possible to link into his infinite if you hit them with a super in the corner. (22)Infinite. Hit airborne opponent with J.HK. airdash back, HK, land SJ.HK, airdash back, HK, repeat. If you don't plan on finishing with a hypercombo, just do it until it undizzies. If you plan on finishing with a super, but not DHCing, do 3 reps. If you plan on finishing with a super & DHCing, do 1-2 reps. This will ensure max damage. Finish with Judgment Day. Posted by Gilliam on 07:05:2001 01:56 PM: I learned alot seeing as i don't play blackheart at all, but i might try him out today. Posted by llllllllll on 07:05:2001 02:22 PM: 22 Tricks for Playing Rushdown Blackheart just saying thanks for that lengthy description of bh's rushdown. plays bh, although, really never analyzed him to the extent which you did. ::thumbs up:: from your summary, lllll has found that bh can only be played one way, like cable, d;p~. his game really consists of the amount of mistakes which happening during the match. game 0n! Posted by Servebot on 07:05:2001 03:30 PM: That was really helpful stuff. I must try these tips out and practice Posted by illusion on 07:05:2001 04:31 PM: ...do you live in arizona?...if so...which city?... later Posted by Paxtez on 07:05:2001 05:06 PM: Re: 22 Tricks for Playing Rushdown Blackheart quote: Originally posted by DeathFromAbove (1)When you attack DURING Blackheart's air dash, it causes the airdash to travel further across the screen, and move faster. It also causes the airdash to last longer. A quick look: normal airdash: 1/3 of a screen, very quick airdash + LP: 1/2 of a screen, very quick airdash + LK: 1/2 of a screen, recovers a bit quicker than LP airdash + HP: Full screen, very long duration. This also causes the demons to be spaced apart much farther than they normally would, providing excellent cover during the dash. airdash + HK: Full screen, very long duration, The demons also travel downwards at a much different angle than they normally would. Personally, this is too riskly, hes just waiting to be hit when you use these, espically the hp one.... *shudder* quote: (2)Best jump-in: jump forward, air dash forward, LK, LK after the dash ends. A good way to get in close. I find that a good chunk of the time I do my dash before I come in. And his just plain short has pretty dam good priority. (iron man, door, psylock, and only a few other people can beat it) But I'll experiment more with the foward, but I have a feeling that if I jumping foward, my ground combo won't connect... quote: (3)Crossover jumpins: HP & HK. Jump forward as if you're going to jump-in, then do an airdash forward, and do HP or HK during the airdash. Blackheart will fly over their head, but the demons will hit them from the front. When done with HP, the individual demons will hit the opponent from behind, 1 at a time, causing many opponents to block wrong. Easier way, stand about 1/3-1/4 of the screen away, jump towards, hk kick, then air dash. If you do it right, you will cross him over and the deamons will grab him. quote: (6)Use his ground dash at close range, once you call in your helper. It will crossover the opponent, protecting your helper. It will also add to the chaos of trying to block correctly. Basic idea is: C.LK + call helper, dash forward. This works better if the assist doesn't push them too far back (like Cyclops unfortunately does). Very risky. Depending on your assist (ie: any non-doom aaa) if they do block it you are screwed. BH is so vularable during the dash is dumb. Don't use this too much, any more then twice a match and you are asking for a super to the face. Plus its kinda slow, they can just snuff you before the dash. quote: (7)Guardbreaks. Everyone knows you can jumpback with HP all day with Blackheart against rush characters. What isn't obvious is that the HP demons do an excellent job of guardbreaking any character onscreen foolish enough to do a normal jump. Capitalize on this by calling in a quick assist when you see them block a demon. (Ken, Capcom, and Cyclops are recommended) BH has horrible guard breaks. I have found out about 10, but they all work about 10% if done perfectly. Its not worth it. Plus inorder to hit them with your fp and a good height, you would have to normal jump, thus leaving you open. quote: (11)Be careful of AAA's. Blackheart doesn't have a ground dash-in chain, so you can't rely on him to stuff Capcom (and other non-invincible AAAs) before they come out. Truth be told, BH needs an anti-assist assist to help him in this area. Make sure to get an assist with some invincibility to drop in on them at close range. (Ken!) After getting their AAA snuffed a few times, they'll hesitate to use it that way again. BH's s.lk stops commando if timed right, and even if you time it kinda wrong you'll be able to block after. You should just aaa his aaa after then hcb+fpXXhod, it can take up to 40-50% on a weak assist, plus if the point keeps blocking, you can just super his assist again. quote: (13)Be willing to DHC. Blackheart loves to DHC. Judgment Day and Armageddon are 2 excellent supers to DHC out of. HoD is good to DHC into. If you put BH on a team where he is battery, and you don't let him spend at least one level of HC to DHC out of, you're effectively neutering him. His supers do good damage. Use them, dammit. Judgmentday is also a GREAT super to dhc into, it comes out instantly. You know storms hail? That shit is slow compared to the demons up close. Once I hvb a spiral (oops), she teleported behind me and did her launcher, I dhc right befor the laucher hit and she was stuck in the same frame until the demons hit her. Plus at full screen bh recovers before the person blocking/getting hit by does. quote: (15)Jump back HP is a good holding pattern against keep-away. However, if you are closer than 1/2 a screen, do jump back LP, and cancel it to a back dash. Throw a HP during the air dash. Much better. You can only do that during a super jump, and if you super jump why not just drop some hk demons on them? quote: (16)Do NOT throw out an Inferno unless your opponent is high in the air. Otherwise, you have to burn a level just to cover yourself. Unless you're chipping their last bit of life off with HoD, don't do it. It's better to save your meter for damaging DHC combinations. Exception: if BH is your last character and you have the lead, go ahead and go for the chipping damage. Screw that, dhc is over rated. Doing assist,infernoxxhod is like a free 8-12% chip damage. They can't do anthing before (most people), they cant do anything after (everyone). And bh gains meters like .. well blackheart. Use some, and if the person assists a lot, you will catch them. quote: (18)Judgment Day > Heart of Darkness. If you have a choice, do Judgment Day. It does better damage, and is much better to DHC out of (since most of the damage from HoD is on the last hit) The chip damage is comparable, and from full screen, it is totally safe (even against Cable) if blocked. Jugdemt day is bh's weakest super. Plus its not very consistant (like any of bh's supers are). I've hit people with one demon they bounced out and blocked the rest. And if you wind up to do a judment day, you going to get ahvb, his beam will just eat the few demons that got out. Its better to dhc into, and sometimes out of, but thats it. quote: (19)Armageddon works well for punishing helpers. If you hit them in the air (after a Ken assist?) with it, you can immediately do a J.HP, land and do another Armageddon, and it will uncombo the helper (in most cases, this is fatal to the helper). Just don't try this against Cable, Iron Man, or any other character with a multihitting beam projectile. I just like the hcb+hpxxhod. It chips the point man and they can't do anything until after the super is over to try and stop you, and if they do, a lot of times they will get hit buy the next set. If you think they are going to try and walk you can do the ground thunder, push them back, cancle into hod and hit the assist (which should be coming back to the ground at about the same time) quote: (20)Always, always end any aircombos with an airthrow. BH can be punished during his forced dash after an aircombo if you end it with his medium kick. Learn his airdash combo to get decent damage out of it: LP, LK, LP, LP XX airdash LP, LK, airthrow lp,lk,lp,lp, dash,lp,lk,throw doesn't work. The best you can do is: lp,lk,lp,dash,lp,lk,lp,throw (in corner only) lp,lk,lp,dash,lp,lk,throw (anywhere else) I'm trying stuff like adding extra jabs in, but it usally messes up the placement. quote: (21)You can airdash at the end of a HoD. Keep the pressure on after a blocked super. It's possible to link into his infinite if you hit them with a super in the corner. I'm pretty sure you can't block if you dash, and a lot of people are stupid and try to hit you after the hod (even though you can't be hit in retaliation if they block it). They will end up smacking you with a super or something, the only think I found thats good, is if you are directly above them, just come down with a fp, and they will have to block it. You can't link his infinate from his super in the corner. Flying screens turns on, and you can't sj, or dash. Well maybe if they don't mash out of demons for a crazy long time or something. But every good player gets out of demons in less then a second (when not in the bouncy state). quote: (22)Infinite. Hit airborne opponent with J.HK. airdash back, HK, land SJ.HK, airdash back, HK, repeat. If you don't plan on finishing with a hypercombo, just do it until it undizzies. If you plan on finishing with a super, but not DHCing, do 3 reps. If you plan on finishing with a super & DHCing, do 1-2 reps. This will ensure max damage. Finish with Judgment Day. Finish with the judment day, it will do more dam, each rock will only do about 1 point of dam and you're lucky if you hit someone with 10 rocks. There are about 32 demons in judgement day. More dam. Doing the infinite is more dam then a single super or his air combo, but I've been using him and I still can't do it 100%. Its a wierd combo. Overall: Good faq, never saw a faq on a rushdown bh. But it doesn't even sound like you play a very rush down bh. You worry about dhc's and stuff. Plus you don't give any good combos... I rush down, until I can do my combo and boom, 40% of life gone. You didn't mention about the cable ahvb retaliation after hod. (read: Never hod cable, when not in the corner unless you plan to dhc out.) Score: 7 (good could have been a lot better) well +1, it is on BH. BH is the man. Keep up the good work. =) PS You going b5? I'l like to try fight your bh with mine (although my bh isn't so good agaist bh's, even though I can like ocv teams wtih him and stuff... shrug..) Posted by Naslectronical on 07:05:2001 07:13 PM: quote: Originally posted by Paxtes Screw that, dhc is over rated. Doing assist,infernoxxhod is like a free 8-12% chip damage. They can't do anthing before (most people), they cant do anything after (everyone). And bh gains meters like .. well blackheart. Use some, and if the person assists a lot, you will catch them. Actually, Cable can do something after the HOD. He can let the last part of it hit him, and tehn AHVB Blackheat when the flying screen is over. Posted by Ryo Yamazaki on 07:05:2001 07:23 PM: Actually this rushdown guide has helped me out a bit as my BH game is rather weak Posted by TimeFlip on 07:05:2001 07:36 PM: The ground Judgement Day super is damn near useless, kind of like HVB. However, if you call a chipping assist, air dash a bit over the opponent, then do an AJD(TM), then it does better chip. The ground judgement day super gets ducked under by most people. Posted by Dasrik on 07:05:2001 08:18 PM: Re: Re: 22 Tricks for Playing Rushdown Blackheart Hmmm. quote: Originally posted by Paxtez I find that a good chunk of the time I do my dash before I come in. And his just plain short has pretty dam good priority. (iron man, door, psylock, and only a few other people can beat it) But I'll experiment more with the foward, but I have a feeling that if I jumping foward, my ground combo won't connect... In a superjump, plain short works, but in a regular jump, you're going to have to hit really deep with the jumping short if you want to combo anything after it without using jump forward. quote: Very risky. Depending on your assist (ie: any non-doom aaa) if they do block it you are screwed. BH is so vularable during the dash is dumb. Don't use this too much, any more then twice a match and you are asking for a super to the face. Plus its kinda slow, they can just snuff you before the dash. Agreed. Seeing as Blackheart's "dash" is more like a roll (it can get hit low), its uses are limited. The best thing to do with it is to drop a Doom AAA and dash. quote: BH has horrible guard breaks. I have found out about 10, but they all work about 10% if done perfectly. Its not worth it. Plus inorder to hit them with your fp and a good height, you would have to normal jump, thus leaving you open. Jumpback fierce is very safe, and a very good player (Hiro) uses this tactic with glitched Juggernaut assist. If you airblock a fierce, you WILL lose 70% of your life when Juggernaut Punch, Inferno XX HOD connects. I'll have to experiment more with the jump fierce as a guardbreak. quote: BH's s.lk stops commando if timed right, and even if you time it kinda wrong you'll be able to block after. You should just aaa his aaa after then hcb+fpXXhod, it can take up to 40-50% on a weak assist, plus if the point keeps blocking, you can just super his assist again. I'm sure you mean crouch short, because stand short will do nothing unless you're close enough to smell your opponent's breath. This isn't something that should be relied on, because Commando can be called just before the opponent blocks your short, and then he'll hammer you. And Inferno XX HOD on Commando won't work if the opponent thinks to move. quote: Judgmentday is also a GREAT super to dhc into, it comes out instantly. You know storms hail? That shit is slow compared to the demons up close. Once I hvb a spiral (oops), she teleported behind me and did her launcher, I dhc right befor the laucher hit and she was stuck in the same frame until the demons hit her. Plus at full screen bh recovers before the person blocking/getting hit by does. There are very few instances where I'd DHC into Judgement Day instead of HOD or Armageddon. If I'm trying to get them to block a super to bring BH in, HOD is easily better, and in combos Armageddon usually does way more damage. quote: You can only do that during a super jump, and if you super jump why not just drop some hk demons on them? Because if the opponent evades the roundhouse demons and you've already airdashed, you can consider yourself screwed. quote: Screw that, dhc is over rated. Doing assist,infernoxxhod is like a free 8-12% chip damage. They can't do anthing before (most people), they cant do anything after (everyone). And bh gains meters like .. well blackheart. Use some, and if the person assists a lot, you will catch them. People are getting better at evading Inferno XX HOD. First of all, catching someone out of a superjump with Inferno XX HOD is totally pointless if they block. The Inferno will knock them out of the HOD path, and in any case leaves them room to retaliate (Magneto can airdash between the Inferno and the HOD, and then you're quite screwed.) Inferno XX HOD as a chipper is only really effective in the corner - outside of it, I'd prefer Inferno XX Judgement Day for superjumpers (which works more often than you'd say it does), and not trying to chip grounded users. quote: Jugdemt day is bh's weakest super. Plus its not very consistant (like any of bh's supers are). I've hit people with one demon they bounced out and blocked the rest. And if you wind up to do a judment day, you going to get ahvb, his beam will just eat the few demons that got out. Its better to dhc into, and sometimes out of, but thats it. It's safe against Cable if he superjumps or from up close. Ducking will evade most chip damage, but you'll still have to block a few demons. quote: I just like the hcb+hpxxhod. It chips the point man and they can't do anything until after the super is over to try and stop you, and if they do, a lot of times they will get hit buy the next set. If you think they are going to try and walk you can do the ground thunder, push them back, cancle into hod and hit the assist (which should be coming back to the ground at about the same time) Relying on Inferno XX HOD for anything is unreliable, but especially assist punishing, since it tracks the point man. There's a chance Inferno will push them out of the best part of HOD, as well. It's pretty decent to do on non-rushdown oriented people, but someone with good mobility will eat you for lunch if you rely on this. quote: I'm pretty sure you can't block if you dash, and a lot of people are stupid and try to hit you after the hod (even though you can't be hit in retaliation if they block it). They will end up smacking you with a super or something, the only think I found thats good, is if you are directly above them, just come down with a fp, and they will have to block it. You can't link his infinate from his super in the corner. Flying screens turns on, and you can't sj, or dash. Well maybe if they don't mash out of demons for a crazy long time or something. But every good player gets out of demons in less then a second (when not in the bouncy state). Another little known fact about HOD - if it's blocked, you can call assists after the super ends. VERRY useful, because if you're playing keepaway you get a free run, and with rushdown you get to come down on top of the opponent without risk of retaliation. quote: Finish with the judment day, it will do more dam, each rock will only do about 1 point of dam and you're lucky if you hit someone with 10 rocks. There are about 32 demons in judgement day. More dam. Doing the infinite is more dam then a single super or his air combo, but I've been using him and I still can't do it 100%. Its a wierd combo. Agreed. Also, the infinite should be uncomboed, something that's only really easy to do with Cyclops. Do the infinite for three cycles, then let them land. They'll still be in stun long enough for you to call out Cyclops and repeat the infinite. The combo meter ends, so the damage resets. Posted by Dasrik on 07:05:2001 08:31 PM: More assorted notes about Blackheart: * Tigerkneed airdash - down, up-forward+PP. If you're going to cross up an opponent, this is what you should use, since you get to turn around and attack your opponent after the airdash. This is also a good evasion tactic if Doom decides to drop photons on you. * vs. Sentinel, superjump fierce is an EXCELLENT weapon since Sentinel doesn't get to fly unless he does some REALLY fancy footwork. * Also, Sentinel and Magneto are people that you want to occasionally use jab infernos on. As long as you have cover ready, jab infernos work great on people who think to avoid your fierce infernos from a distance by airdashing forward or flying and trying to stomp you. Cancelling into Judgement Day is the best way to assure safety. * jab Dark Thunder - an underrated weapon. As long as you have B-Doom, Y-Sentinel or a similar assist to keep the point man busy, you can use jab Dark Thunder to neutralize assists that bother BH. * BH/Storm is a team I'm experimenting with. The DHC into hail storm should mean that Commando loses effectiveness - if you get hit by it and have two meters, do Judgement Day xx hail storm for free hurt on Commando. This may end up not working because of the startup on JD - but I'm trying it out. In any case, the DHC possibility still takes care of some Blackheart problems, and plus you get Storm to play with, a REALLY good character. Posted by DeathFromAbove on 07:05:2001 09:57 PM: Re: Re: 22 Tricks for Playing Rushdown Blackheart quote: Originally posted by Paxtez Personally, this is too riskly, hes just waiting to be hit when you use these, espically the hp one.... *shudder* Not if you do it at a low height, and you crossover. I think I covered when/where later on... quote: but I have a feeling that if I jumping foward, my ground combo won't connect... It will. Better hitstun, too. You must do the LK really deep...*scratches head* quote: Easier way, stand about 1/3-1/4 of the screen away, jump towards, hk kick, then air dash. If you do it right, you will cross him over and the deamons will grab him. Good idea. I find that harder. Same results anyway. To each their own. quote: Very risky. Depending on your assist (ie: any non-doom aaa) if they do block it you are screwed. BH is so vularable during the dash is dumb. Don't use this too much, any more then twice a match and you are asking for a super to the face. Plus its kinda slow, they can just snuff you before the dash. 2X a match is about right. I didn't say abuse it. I mean, you don't do the same trick 16X in a row w/ Mags rushdown, either. quote: BH has horrible guard breaks. I have found out about 10, but they all work about 10% if done perfectly. Its not worth it. Plus inorder to hit them with your fp and a good height, you would have to normal jump, thus leaving you open. I see where you're confused. It isn't: opponent jumps, I guard break them. It's: I jumpback fierce as bait for a guardbreak. One of the few reasons to ever normal jump, but well worth the small risk. Big damage comes out of this. quote: BH's s.lk stops commando if timed right, and even if you time it kinda wrong you'll be able to block after. You should just aaa his aaa after then hcb+fpXXhod, it can take up to 40-50% on a weak assist, plus if the point keeps blocking, you can just super his assist again. I think anti-assisting was one of my other points farther down. Also, if you wait until after their assist comes out to call yours in, there's a pretty good chance their point character is going to protect it and keep you in block stun afterwards. Not a bad idea, but my way works better. quote: Judgment day is also a GREAT super to dhc into, it comes out instantly. You know storms hail? That shit is slow compared to the demons up close. Once I hvb a spiral (oops), she teleported behind me and did her launcher, I dhc right befor the laucher hit and she was stuck in the same frame until the demons hit her. Plus at full screen bh recovers before the person blocking/getting hit by does. Agreed. Which is why Judgment Day is the super I use most often. ...and why I'm pushing people to use it in this post. quote: You can only do that during a super jump, and if you super jump why not just drop some hk demons on them? I guess I should have explicitly said, "Always SJ and cancel to airdash at low altitude, instead of jump." The only times you would want to normal jump are a. after a pushblock, or b. if you're fishing for a guardbreak. quote: Screw that, dhc is over rated. Doing assist,infernoxxhod is like a free 8-12% chip damage. They can't do anthing before (most people), they cant do anything after (everyone). And bh gains meters like .. well blackheart. Use some, and if the person assists a lot, you will catch them. It's a trade-off. Would you rather have: (1) 36% chip damage, guaranteed, or would you rather... (2) Kill their AAA for almost free the instant you reach 3 levels. People don't expect BH as an assist killer in your area, do they? Now you know why. DHC is underrated, if anything. quote: Jugdment day is bh's weakest super. Plus its not very consistant (like any of bh's supers are). I've hit people with one demon they bounced out and blocked the rest. And if you wind up to do a judment day, you going to get ahvb, his beam will just eat the few demons that got out. Its better to dhc into, and sometimes out of, but thats it. It's his only reliable super to DHC out of (unless Storm is your next character). You don't DHC, so I can see why you don't like it. And like you pointed out earlier, it's very safe from full-screen. Try this super out. It works, even if it doesn't sound like it should. It WILL surprise you. quote: I just like the hcb+hpxxhod. It chips the point man and they can't do anything until after the super is over to try and stop you, and if they do, a lot of times they will get hit buy the next set. If you think they are going to try and walk you can do the ground thunder, push them back, cancle into hod and hit the assist (which should be coming back to the ground at about the same time) That sounds pretty solid. I really don't play my opponent from that distance very often, though. And I'd rather save my HC meter... quote: lp,lk,lp,lp, dash,lp,lk,throw doesn't work. The best you can do is: lp,lk,lp,dash,lp,lk,lp,throw (in corner only) lp,lk,lp,dash,lp,lk,throw (anywhere else) I'm trying stuff like adding extra jabs in, but it usally messes up the placement. Clarification: lp (real lp), lk, lp (real lp), lp(actually, mp) XX dash lp, lk, throw. Or use yours, it doesn't matter. quote: I'm pretty sure you can't block if you dash, and a lot of people are stupid and try to hit you after the hod (even though you can't be hit in retaliation if they block it). They will end up smacking you with a super or something, the only think I found thats good, is if you are directly above them, just come down with a fp, and they will have to block it. Good points. Still, I get crossover HP on this, usually. And it works for me. quote: You can't link his infinate from his super in the corner. Flying screens turns on, and you can't sj, or dash. Well maybe if they don't mash out of demons for a crazy long time or something. But every good player gets out of demons in less then a second (when not in the bouncy state). You CAN airdash. They are in the bouncy state. It's in one of the MikeZ videos...except he doesn't continue into the infinite, he lands and does another super. I was making a point about why it would be useful to airdash after a HoD. quote: Finish with the judment day, it will do more dam, each rock will only do about 1 point of dam and you're lucky if you hit someone with 10 rocks. There are about 32 demons in judgement day. More dam. Doing the infinite is more dam then a single super or his air combo, but I've been using him and I still can't do it 100%. Its a wierd combo. ?!? Ummmm...I said to use Judgment day. quote: Overall: Good faq, never saw a faq on a rushdown bh. But it doesn't even sound like you play a very rush down bh. You worry about dhc's and stuff. Plus you don't give any good combos... I rush down, until I can do my combo and boom, 40% of life gone. You didn't mention about the cable ahvb retaliation after hod. (read: Never hod cable, when not in the corner unless you plan to dhc out.) I'm constantly in my opponent's face, crossing them up. That's not rushdown? Granted, my strategy IS to kill their AAA first, then rush their point character the hell down, but that's still rushdown, ain't it? quote: Score: 7 (good could have been a lot better) well +1, it is on BH. BH is the man. Keep up the good work. =) Thanx. You brought up a lot of good points...I hope these responses don't sound antagonistic, they aren't meant to be. I simply believe my points are all quite valid. In hindsight, there are some things I should have said, that I just didn't (like...remember to use his throw ) quote: PS You going b5? I'l like to try fight your bh with mine (although my bh isn't so good agaist bh's, even though I can like ocv teams with him and stuff... shrug..) Doubtful. I haven't signed up, but there is a tiny chance I could get there. If I can talk my wife into taking our anniversary vacation two weeks late, and talk her into taking it in sokali, and convince her to let me use one day of the vacation to go play video games...nope, doesn't look hopeful... -DFA Posted by DeathFromAbove on 07:06:2001 12:04 AM: *bump* Posted by Paxtez on 07:06:2001 02:25 AM: quote: Originally posted by Naslectronical Actually, Cable can do something after the HOD. He can let the last part of it hit him, and tehn AHVB Blackheat when the flying screen is over. Generally, he can't really cause he will be in block stun and you can't unblock yourself. But I was aware of this, does'nt matter you can get supered between the inferno and the hod. I figured the reader wasn't a moron and just wouldn't wildly throw hods (against cable at least) Posted by Paxtez on 07:06:2001 02:45 AM: Re: Re: Re: 22 Tricks for Playing Rushdown Blackheart [QUOTE]Originally posted by Dasrik Hmmm. [B] In a superjump, plain short works, but in a regular jump, you're going to have to hit really deep with the jumping short if you want to combo anything after it without using jump forward. Yeah, still works. I'll screw around with the foward. See how it works. Jumpback fierce is very safe, and a very good player (Hiro) uses this tactic with glitched Juggernaut assist. If you airblock a fierce, you WILL lose 70% of your life when Juggernaut Punch, Inferno XX HOD connects. I'll have to experiment more with the jump fierce as a guardbreak. I don't know, the problem is that the jump fiece throws out like 5 demons, in kinda diff dirs. If even one demon isn't blocked, it will stay on the screen and because of the onscreen threat, you won't break his guard. I'm sure you mean crouch short, because stand short will do nothing unless you're close enough to smell your opponent's breath. This isn't something that should be relied on, because Commando can be called just before the opponent blocks your short, and then he'll hammer you. And Inferno XX HOD on Commando won't work if the opponent thinks to move. Nope, his s.lk has better range then his c.lk, and is pretty much the same speed. That was my point, you can lk,lk,lk,lk,lk and it is very easy to react faster then capcom will come out and you will block him. I do this kinda a lot, and I'm caught with an assist like 5% of the time (and thats usally when I go for something bigger). Yeah, but if you have any type of beam assist it will push him back into the super, and his assist will get hit. There are very few instances where I'd DHC into Judgement Day instead of HOD or Armageddon. If I'm trying to get them to block a super to bring BH in, HOD is easily better, and in combos Armageddon usually does way more damage. Try dhc into the JD super when a mag trys to cross up your point man (ie missed ahbv, etc) you will catch him, its like crazy fast. And armmageddon has the potental to do more damage, but the rocks are so random its average damage is pretty low. But its good for high people. Because if the opponent evades the roundhouse demons and you've already airdashed, you can consider yourself screwed. I rarly, ever hk,dash,hk unless I am certain that he will be pushed down. Its too risky. People are getting better at evading Inferno XX HOD. First of all, catching someone out of a superjump with Inferno XX HOD is totally pointless if they block. The Inferno will knock them out of the HOD path, and in any case leaves them room to retaliate (Magneto can airdash between the Inferno and the HOD, and then you're quite screwed.) Inferno XX HOD as a chipper is only really effective in the corner - outside of it, I'd prefer Inferno XX Judgement Day for superjumpers (which works more often than you'd say it does), and not trying to chip grounded users. Depends, most the time when they block the inferno, they will have to block the hod. I never really thought of infernoxx JD for chipping, I should try that. Relying on Inferno XX HOD for anything is unreliable, but especially assist punishing, since it tracks the point man. There's a chance Inferno will push them out of the best part of HOD, as well. It's pretty decent to do on non-rushdown oriented people, but someone with good mobility will eat you for lunch if you rely on this. Well yeah, I did kinda empsize it too much for the amout I use it, I hit and assist with more then one super like once out of 10 games or so. And you use an assist right before the inferno, a good assist will push the point man right into the super. Another little known fact about HOD - if it's blocked, you can call assists after the super ends. VERRY useful, because if you're playing keepaway you get a free run, and with rushdown you get to come down on top of the opponent without risk of retaliation. Yeah good point, but keep in mind, you are in the air for like 1/2 sec so its not a huge diff. Posted by Juggrknott on 07:06:2001 03:24 AM: Wanted to thank both the originator of and contributors to this thread for their helpful and insightful posts. You might have to wait literally hundreds of posts to see a discussion of this nature sometimes, but it's worth it. Your efforts are not in vain. -Jugg Posted by DeathFromAbove on 07:06:2001 08:22 AM: quote: Originally posted by Juggrknott Wanted to thank both the originator of and contributors to this thread for their helpful and insightful posts. You might have to wait literally hundreds of posts to see a discussion of this nature sometimes, but it's worth it. Your efforts are not in vain. -Jugg Thanx. If you (or anybody) have any questions about anything posted, or about Blackheart in general, I'll answer them. (Don't want to let this thread die just yet, anyway.) -DFA Posted by illusion on 07:06:2001 10:02 AM: quote: Originally posted by illusion ...do you live in arizona?...if so...which city?... later so..? Posted by Paxtez on 07:06:2001 12:55 PM: Re: Re: Re: 22 Tricks for Playing Rushdown Blackheart quote: Originally posted by DeathFromAbove Not if you do it at a low height, and you crossover. I think I covered when/where later on... It will. Better hitstun, too. You must do the LK really deep...*scratches head* Yeah, I jump in, if I don't see any attack that might hit me, I use the short (really late) to combo. quote: I think anti-assisting was one of my other points farther down. Also, if you wait until after their assist comes out to call yours in, there's a pretty good chance their point character is going to protect it and keep you in block stun afterwards. Not a bad idea, but my way works better Hehe nope, mine does =) (imho) quote: It's a trade-off. Would you rather have: (1) 36% chip damage, guaranteed, or would you rather... (2) Kill their AAA for almost free the instant you reach 3 levels. People don't expect BH as an assist killer in your area, do they? Now you know why. DHC is underrated, if anything. I'm sorry, but a good player isn't going to stand back while you keep supering there assist. Pretty much every character has at least 1 one way to hit you out of the judgment day, most with a super. It leaves yourself way to open unless you are in a corner, and then the hcb+hpxxhod works best. And they could just push the armageddon back. quote: It's his only reliable super to DHC out of (unless Storm is your next character). You don't DHC, so I can see why you don't like it. And like you pointed out earlier, it's very safe from full-screen. Try this super out. It works, even if it doesn't sound like it should. It WILL surprise you. Yeah, I know what you mean. I do dhc, but the amount that you mention it makes it seem thats a main part of your game plan. Thats just my exit. quote: Clarification: lp (real lp), lk, lp (real lp), lp(actually, mp) XX dash lp, lk, throw. Or use yours, it doesn't matter. That doesn't work, the lag on the sj.lk is too much (well its not lag, but you have to wait till he get to his neutral position to do the second lp) quote: Good points. Still, I get crossover HP on this, usually. And it works for me. You CAN airdash. They are in the bouncy state. It's in one of the MikeZ videos...except he doesn't continue into the infinite, he lands and does another super. I was making a point about why it would be useful to airdash after a HoD. No you cannot aid dash after you do the hcb+fpxx hod, because combo mike z did involved the team up super. (which doesn't turn on flying screens) So you can do whatever you want after, but when you do the normal hod you cannot do any special moves, supers, assists, tag outs, superjumps, dashes. Only basic normal moves are allowed. Did you ever bother to test this out before telling other people to do it?? quote: ?!? Ummmm...I said to use Judgment day. Opps, it was like 6 am when I wrote it, I thought it said armageddon. quote: I'm constantly in my opponent's face, crossing them up. That's not rushdown? Granted, my strategy IS to kill their AAA first, then rush their point character the hell down, but that's still rushdown, ain't it? Yeah, again it was pretty late when I wrote it. hehe Yeah its rush down, still woudl like to see it in action. quote: Thanx. You brought up a lot of good points...I hope these responses don't sound antagonistic, they aren't meant to be. I simply believe my points are all quite valid. In hindsight, there are some things I should have said, that I just didn't (like...remember to use his throw ) Doubtful. I haven't signed up, but there is a tiny chance I could get there. If I can talk my wife into taking our anniversary vacation two weeks late, and talk her into taking it in sokali, and convince her to let me use one day of the vacation to go play video games...nope, doesn't look hopeful... Yeah, I hope I didn't come off as some scrub yelling in the back saying you suck. I critised a bunch of points cause I thought it had a good start. If I thought it was crappy at all, I would have bothered to reply to the thread (much less 5 times ) Posted by Juggrknott on 07:06:2001 04:32 PM: Thanks, DFA; I appreciate it. I think the responses are clear and well-presented enough to where I should be able to glean what I'm supposed to from them without too much difficulty.... Again, nice (& educational) thread. -Jugg Posted by Spider_Sting on 07:06:2001 07:33 PM: good stuff dfa! Posted by Mr. E on 07:06:2001 10:17 PM: actually, cable can, while stuck in the inferno xx HOD, go for a pysmitar between the second to last/last hit, get hit by the last hit, initiate flying screen, and whip out a AHVB. Posted by DeathFromAbove on 07:06:2001 11:17 PM: quote: Originally posted by Paxtez I'm sorry, but a good player isn't going to stand back while you keep supering there assist. Pretty much every character has at least 1 one way to hit you out of the judgment day, most with a super. It leaves yourself way to open unless you are in a corner, and then the hcb+hpxxhod works best. And they could just push the armageddon back. Wait...are you talking about about JD or Armageddon? Judgment Day DHC 2X is safe, except on huge helpers (Sent), since a few demons usually get by. Plus the screen freeze on the DHC locks them into the next super, which for me is usually Electric Cage, Hail Storm, or MOB. If you're talking about the repeated Armageddon trick, it isn't safe against about 1/2 the cast, which I tried to be careful to menion (don't do this against anyone with a beam super). BTW, the jumping HP demons in between are as much to keep the point character from disrupting the uncombo as they are to juggle the helper. Also, you can call in a helper inbetween, since this doesn't combo. Doom works well in there. Posted by ShinGouki00 on 07:07:2001 03:19 AM: sweet man Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on 07:07:2001 04:22 AM: Like others have said, this is a really nice thread. Rushdown BH is seeming like my kind of character. Haveta try him out next time. Josh the FunkDOC Posted by StarFire on 07:08:2001 06:35 PM: That was the best Blackheart thread I ever read. Can't believe this fell to page 3 already. It needs a definite bump. Posted by Dorrinal on 11:09:2001 02:02 AM: Hot shit! Great post. Blackheart quickly became my best character a while ago and I'm glad to be able to expand my ability. Thanks to everyone, and a quick question: How do you usually start your matches? I like to start with: j.lk with beam assist, right over their heads, land with a lk->hk. Those who don't block, eat the HoD. People who get wise to this one usually get a jump (with or without an assist), j.lk, air dash back (sometimes with a hk). One thing that I like to abuse which was only mentioned I think once in the thread: lk, hk. Usually pretty safe, and earns you a HoD if the kobolds hit. I found that tail-slapping someone while calling out an assist to keep 'em locked down is a good way to do three things: get pushblocked away; draw out an AAA for demon snackin'; give yourself a few seconds to think, change the pace of the match. All times are GMT. The time now is 10:41 PM. 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